[ the first part of this interview has been lost ]

Raeshma: So you said about the language they heard you speak.

Abou: Some were asking say the generals, if they take a lot of people they were asking, are you Mandingo? And if you say yes then they will kill you. If they ask you are Joiba or something like that. Like if I'm Mandingo I'll ask you. Are you Mandingo and if you say yes I'm live you because you are my child but if I ask you are Mandingo and you say no, I'm gonna kill because you are not my child. The rebels do it like that.

Loulou: And also for the mark, right?

Abou: Yeah and also the mark. If they catch you they, they were calling it tattoo, right? Some sign like if they take you to work for them they make you that on your ear or your face like that. If you see them they do it on the hand like that and you gonna know we are the same and some people do like that. Muslims do like that the same. When Alhaji Kromah make his soldiers, he make his soldiers- he was, his signs like that. If you do that and you say La-il-allah-hay mohammad-ur-rasool allah hay and if you do like that nobody is gonna do nothing to you but if they say Allah-hamduru and you don't say bilahi, they kill you if you are Muslim because everybody knows Allah-hamduru-bilahi. But only the Mandingo people begin like soldiers. They were crazy men [hissing]. They were kill people like real animals.

Raeshma: What did you think about that?

Abou: You know because they need to do that because the rebels killed a lot of Muslims and they killed a lot of fathers and mothers. And when they kill the fathers and mothers, like I am here they kill my father in front of me, I'm here they kill my brother in front of me, I'm here they kill my sister in front of me when I live there I'm go to come with my powers and I'm gonna kill like easy? No I'm gonna kill like hot. They take a people with stomach like that and you are alive, they take your nose and they make check points. They do the people like that. They take their nose and put them.

Raeshma: Oh that's gross.

Loulou: They do that also like they take the skull and put them in front of their cars. They will kill you and put your head in front of their car.

[Abou nods in agreement].

Abou: And they was eating human beings. The rebels was eating but when Alhaji started they was eating the pain, heart and tongue.[Very emotional- shaking his head and hissing]. When I was in Guinea they was coming with a lot of pictures. You know I was with the soldiers, so I do this and this. Some people that were there we know them and some we didn't know. But when we were coming to Guinea, when the rebels traveled from Liberia to Guinea they say I know you but I didn't want to kill you, I don't want to be soldier anymore but I do this, I do this, I do this.

Raeshma: Do you think that most of the people who were rebels wanted to kill people?

Abou: Most rebels?

Raeshma: Yeah.

Abou: Yeah most rebels from Burkina Faso when they see you they wanna kill you. No problem but when your country people see you, they are easy to kill - you know they don't want to kill you but they are forced to. But Taylor paid the people to come be rebels [talking about the Burkinabes]. I f they see you they don't want to ask you, they don't want to take a chance they kill you. But if you was younger they take you to the rebel camp - two days, three days they help you to know how to kill the people. They force you to do it. Some people see the old people and you see your mother or father or sister but you cannot say my mother or sister. You just see because if you say my mother, they kill you. You have to go they gonna kill you but if you leave that, maybe they gonna leave them. But if you see your brother, you gonna say oh my brother, my brother, they gonna take oh now we know what you wanna do - they gonna kill you. But you have to keep quiet. You be looking your brother and if he sees you, you keep quiet. And you take you brother like you gonna kill him and you help him to leave. They do it.

Raeshma: So Abou did they make you learn how to shoot the gun?

Abou: No they didn't make me to shoot the gun but that time I want to be - to kill the people.

Raeshma: You did?

Abou: But that time. But if I remember my father speaking and my mother like I don't want to do it. My mother was talk to me you see everything but you cannot do. My father also.

Raeshma: Why did you want to kill people?

Abou: Because I see they kill my friend, my friend brother, you know my close people and they kill the children and they don't do nothing. They kill them so I need to kill too.

Didi: You wanted to kill rebels?

Abou: Yeah at that time if I see them like a big man, like a rebel who is strong, I need to kill them. I was forced to but that man who was helping me tell me to leave that. But I was like why? You are here, you have gun, you make the war come into Liberia. I said if you kill the first people, like who is at the top then you gonna you what to do with the low ones. So if you don't kill the top one then you don't know what to do. Burt he said no I'm not going to kill them because I am here and if I kill them, they are going to kill me. I am here to save myself - to live here. I can't do it but he was Muslim too, he was very Muslim. He was a rebel - they took them and he was helping me there... [?] But they kill a lot of people in front of me.

Didi: How did you left the camp? Did you ran away or they let you go? The rebels.

Abou: The rebel camp? You have to sit. They come like if you - it's not, you know if you are out you hear the sound, they do everything. No. You are inside and they don't force children but if they want to kill you, they are going to take you one by one. Like if they say tomorrow we gonna kill four women and three this, this, this. Tomorrow they take them. If they don't want you, they gonna live you and you walk around and ask do you have food I want to eat? Sometimes they kick you or somtimes they give it to you. Sometimes you go to sit and relax. But your mother like the old men they are work. If they don not work they beat you and if they don not work, they shoot you. But if you are young, you are too small, like that too little, they show you like yesterday we killed that woman- we killed that mother, we gonna kill the children tomorrow. We killed your husband yesterday, we are going to kill you today. We want to see- this, this, this and they go and shoot you. If you are luck, sometimes if they see you they skip you. If you are luck. And sometimes they take people to make hole and they stand in front of the hole like that and they bring big machine and they push you to the ground and grind you- cover you.

Loulou: And Abou you were in this camp, how you leave the camp?

Abou: You can't.

Loulou: So how did you leave for... because you left the camp for the border.

Raeshma: He told us already.

Abou: The ECOMOG people were burning the place. When they come in, they come with their mik[tries to make the sound]. Airplanes like that - the small airplanes they take to burn over there. All. So if you are luck, you move it and if you do not luck and Charles...

Raeshma: And the ECOMOG came and the rebels just would run.

Abou: Yeah they are the first work, they need to move it. People is the first work so they need to move it. When ECOMOG coming they separate. The rebel camp is not house. It's like a tent, a hut, a thatched house.

Raeshma: Yeah, so they can move and go to some other places. Abou can I ask you one more question? Your father was a Imam, so what he say about war, fighting, killing? what did he say to the people about peace?

Abou: When he is going to the mosque or when he is not going to the mosque?

Raeshma: Both. Either when he was at the mosque or when he was at home. You know he gives a [?]. Did he say anything special about the rebels, war or peace or anything like that?

Abou: You know he just say - if it was at the mosque, I don't know because I wasn't there but at home you know he always say - he was saying everyone has to be aqual. You know my father was a very good man. Always he was like to talk to people- like you cannot do that, do this is good, this is bad. But the war was surprise for him. Nobody was think about the war gonna come to this village. The war start in another village but like other places in Africa, the war start and no one knows it is the rebels. They say oh this place is fighting yesterday but nobody know it is the rebels. Like they bring soldiers to come and stop the fight but the rebels when they burn the house, the people, they move away. You know they come –is quiet. They didn't come any noise. They come to kill you and they move it. They come to burn house, to make noise and they move it. And when the soldiers coming, they want to take the civilians. They come to take the country people and say hey you are rebel, you are rebel but all the rebels move it.

Loulou: It was like hit and run.

Abou: They are like that. When they burn this house in the village to village they go away but when the soldiers move in there and they attack the civilians. When the soldiers was coming and moving there then they come out and attack them. So they was do like that. They attack every village one by one and so our village was third.

Raeshma: And how do you want to go back to your country and make peace. I think that's a hard job.

Abou: I want to go back because my country is my country. You know your home is your home, you have to come safe one home. Like if I go to my friend's house, I can sleep there, I can eat there, I can do everything but it's not my home because I have to leave there to go to my home. My place is my place. My friend's house is a place we have to come and talk, to happy and do whatever we want to. But there is my place so that's why I want to go back. I like America, I like New York and they help me to come here, leaving the war but if I make my country peace, good it would be nice than I live my country hot and to live there. So always if I think, I have enjoyed here, I do anything what I do but if I remember my country, they are fighting always. You know you have to come from your house to come take good things to come back to your country to make a peace and if both be peace, it would be nice than hot and peace. So it's not good.

Raeshma: Is there anything you want to say Abou, or is there anything we didn't ask you.

Abou: Me well I want to ask you know I don't know how to speak English well. So I just want to say I have a lot of mistake, I do a lot of mistake and I have to say what are you feel about the war and what are you feel about like em, when you leave here you have to go back home or you have to stay here? What are you feel about this?

Loulou: Like you said war is not a good thing. I don't even want to hear about war and I don't really like it because like innocent people get killed, you know people loose their stuffs like you said- their houses, their possessions. It's not a good thing. And talking about going home, I really liked what you said-you know the parable, coz you said my house and my friend's house. I really liked that and it is like that you have left your own house-like my house is in Sierra Leone and I am here in my friend's house. I can do whatever I want to do here but it's never going to be the same and I guess I agree with that. And one day I would like to go and help build my country

Didi: Yeah same thing for me as well. I have been through war and I feel the same way and we saw a lot and we know a lot and it is just not a good thing at all. I still don't see the reason why people still have wars. They all know and they all see and so what's the point. And of going back home, definitely I'll like to go back home one day, I mean not yet. But definitely I'll go back home and stay there. I mean it's nice here but like you said home is home.

Raeshma: I guess it's hard when you want to do something for your country and go back and make peace because you know you have to be such a strong person in order for you to do that, you know and maybe someone who is sort of normal-say an American, they don't have that same kind of worry that you have. You have this responsibility, this feeling of oh I have to make my life count, you know because they take it for granted, you know other kids in your school who haven't been through this. Well I guess life is different for them so I think it is interesting to hear how Abou like you feel like you need to get your education and become a strong person here and then once you have it you can go back. You know

Abou: Yeah [ nodding his head in agreement].

Didi: Well Abou, thank you for the interview, it was very you know. It was hard for you but it was also nice that you shared your story with us.

Abou: It was very hard.

Didi: I know. Well thank you

Loulou: Thank you very much Abou.

Abou: Yeah thank you too.

Raeshma: Thank you Abou because that was really an amazing story and also the way you expressed yourself was very strong. Just like Loulou said about the house and your friend's house and your home, like you speak very clearly. I could see a lot of images because of the way you talk and I think that's what language is all about. It's not about getting all the words exactly right but it is about being able to tell someone something-so the feeling, so they could understand. And that's what you have. You are strong, so I don't think you worry about how you speak because you are able to tell, to give some one part of your story and communication really counts.